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    in lieu of recent events, here's a water tester

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    bootblack rudiger

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    in lieu of recent events, here's a water tester

    Post  bootblack rudiger on Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:24 pm

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/119236?RS_show_page=0

    so the war in afghanistan is turning out to be a real shit show. however, even though it becomes more brackish and murky every day, i still cant decide if i'm opposed to it or for it. i guess i just want to hear people's opinions on the subject. also, in spirit of the aforementioned rolling stone article, i leave you all with this open ended question- general mcchrystal- is it a good or a bad thing hes been canned?
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    C. Scottie

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    Post  C. Scottie on Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:19 pm

    I'll start with your second question about the General... I'm a man with many friends in the Armed Services. I strongly support the troops of America, even if I do not necessarily support the cause they're fighting for. That being said, in the short, short time that has passed since Petraeus took over, there have already been huge changes in the war. They are now doing tactical withdrawals, which at first glance don't sound bad, until you see how much worse the fighting has gotten. The enemy now attacks viciously and constantly, where once it was closer to guerilla warfare. Nobody, in just one day's time, has come back without being in firefights or explosions. That is news right from the mouth of two, seperate marines in Afghan and in Okinawa. So, all of that being said, I believe that the Obama Administration is making a massive mistake. Petraeus is not at all ready for this kind of assignment.

    As for the war itself... I support fighting terrorism. I know that our people are dying. I know that a lot of the world doesn't want us to be doing what we're doing.

    I also think that the majority of people in the world are cowards who won't risk their own lives to try and make a difference. I'm not saying that we're over there purely to do good and battle for justice; I'm not foolish. Politicians always have ulterior motives. But, as a by-product to those motives, we're fighting a group of people who want nothing more than to kill others and be rewarded for it. I hear a lot of people complaining about the war, but I don't hear more than a handful of soldiers say the same thing.

    I'm biased. I believe war is a necessary thing and that it can make the world better. I say that because not everyone can be reasoned with. There are people on this planet who will kill you, laugh about it, get rewarded, and then kill the rest of your family because it brings them joy. The world would be a better place with less of these people around.
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    F.M.H.B.
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    Re: in lieu of recent events, here's a water tester

    Post  F.M.H.B. on Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:00 am

    As far as government hired mass murderers, Petreaus is a good pick. McChrystal had no idea what modern warfare needs to evolve to. Petreaus is working with the government and civilian sectors on all fronts to minimize war. Any general that flies in the face of what the government, the government for goodness sakes, thinks is unreasonable war conduct needs to be canned, probably shot.

    Just my two cents. I am excited about Petraeus. He is a good man at heart.
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    C. Scottie

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    Post  C. Scottie on Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:13 am

    The only problem I really have with Petraeus isn't actually his way of running things... it is his health. He fainted during a session with the Senate Armed Services Committee, he's had suspicious health issues that he hasn't been releasing... I just don't want to have him get going, then have to get pulled out, and then let somebody else take over who really is new.
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    Avalon

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    Re: in lieu of recent events, here's a water tester

    Post  Avalon on Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:35 am

    I'm with the bubbles that mcchrystal should be taken out back and shot. WHile I blame Obama for not commanding respect Mcchrystal was way out oh line!

    As for the war in general I'm going to have to be a downer and say I don't support the war. WHile I recognize that as you said Scottie people are unreasonable and true peace is probably impossible(cause people are greedy and intolerant) America as a nation has enough problems as is. The war is expensive(1 billion a day right) we are broke, the rate of people out of work is rediculous, OIL SPILL, did I mention the economy? If we at least began to move our soldiers out of iraq/ ahganistan we could use that money somewhere else.

    That and I guess as a person I am just frustrated with this war because we are getting no results. This is offically the longest war in american history and even though I am sure we know where osama is (or if he is even alive) we won't do anything about him. Our respect around the world has an inverse relationship with our debt and to be frank I think America should take care of itself before we try to fix the rest of the world. Oh course getting out is now the issue...
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    she

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    Post  she on Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:56 am

    Well, I haven't been keepin up with the war as of late (the most and most recent news I have had was the rollingstone article), but from the beginning I have supported it (unlike the war in Iraq). In the beginning at least, it was about Osama, no? Since we have started it, there has always been more reason for us to be there than any other place, really.

    As for your second question, well, Mcchrystal sounds (based on that article) like a total... I don't even know. Pompous jock. He works in the military, but constantly fflouts authority, two things which really don't work together. As for Obama's choice... Well, I was just listening to the Diane Rehm Show Weekly News Roundup, and the people on the radio basically said that Obama didn't have a choice. Mcchrystal had shown a severe lack of judgement, and Obama need to make it clear who is in charge. So yeah, I'm glad he got canned.
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    C. Scottie

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    Re: in lieu of recent events, here's a water tester

    Post  C. Scottie on Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:11 pm

    I agree that McChrystal was way out of line, but for all his arrogance, he did know what he was doing and he did it well. Now, I'll say right now that I don't watch the news for reports on the war. That's a bad idea in my book. If I want news, I contact any of the people I know who are fighting the war in the various wings of the Armed Services and I ask them what it's like and how it is going. I figure it is best to hear it from the horse's mouth. I'll admit, maybe my worry is blinding me to the right decision, but being told that things have gone from bad to everyone is being shot does not seem like an improvement to me. That really freaks me out, and the news never seemed so bad until after McChrystal was fired.

    But I do agree with you, Avalon. America has a lot of problems it should be focusing on, rather than the war. The problem is that we're already in the thick of it. I always say that it was a bad idea to get into it. The whole start was a mistake. But we're committed. If we leave now, countless people will literally be brought out into the street and executed because they showed support for a power that can no longer protect them. People still die, even with us there, but it isn't the massacre that will happen if we leave. As for other countries respecting us, it won't happen unless we actually end the war someday soon, which isn't likely. If we bail, we'll be cowards and liars who can't keep to what we say. Honestly, it will be just like Vietnam. "America, get out of there, that's none of your business!" And then when we leave... "America, what's wrong with you? Those people are dying because YOU left."

    If people are going to hate us either way, then I say we stick with it. If the ultimate difference is whether or not our country is prospering or whether or not countless civilians are being slaughtered because they wanted a second chance, I say choose life over economy.
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    Avalon

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    Re: in lieu of recent events, here's a water tester

    Post  Avalon on Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:48 pm

    very true scottie but then how do we leave and when? if they keep needing our help at this rate we may never leave because it is impossible to expect the governments in those countries to improve. The sad truth is that we are stuck there unless something unforeseen happens. It would have been better if we never jumped in afghanistan in the first place but we can't be expected to stay there forever right? eventually we will have to leave and we really won't be able to prevent what happens because if a war lord wants to kill someone they wont wait for us to leave.
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    C. Scottie

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    Re: in lieu of recent events, here's a water tester

    Post  C. Scottie on Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:08 pm

    It is a catch-22 situation, no doubt about it. Every option has terrible consequences, so all that is left is to pick the one that is the best and then hope it works out better than it should.

    I don't think we should leave until one of two things happens: our troops no longer feel like there is anything worth fighting for, or the people within the country no longer want us there. Do not, do NOT, listen to any of the BS the media has said about the people not supporting the United States in their country. There are people who want us out, yes, that is very true. But the vast majority have loved us there, they have thanked our troops, they have said they were blessed that someone cares. That's why I get so hot about the news stations and other media big-wigs talking about the war. They go for what's going to get them ratings, not what is actually true, you know? It makes me furious.

    I'm sorry about kind of ranting there, but it gets under my skin, heheh.

    My reasoning behind the reasons for leaving is pretty simple. If our troops, who are the fighters and the people paying the price of the war, still think that they should be there, then I will trust their judgment because they're saying that they're willing to lay down their lives for something they clearly believe in. As for the second bit, maybe, just maybe, if we fight until they want us out, when we leave they won't get butchered. The situation might worsen, but maybe any crazy men in power will think that the people have seen for themselves that they were wrong about America, and that they don't need to slaughter them. It's a hope, because you can never tell what the powerhungry will do, but it is better than the guarantee otherwise, isn't it?
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    she

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    Re: in lieu of recent events, here's a water tester

    Post  she on Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:54 pm

    Avalon wrote:if they keep needing our help at this rate we may never leave because it is impossible to expect the governments in those countries to improve.

    I agree with you here. We still have people in Vietnam and Korea (n and s), and Japan, and even in Germany, as well as many other places we don't need to be.

    Avalon wrote:It would have been better if we never jumped in afghanistan in the first place

    I think here you may be thinking of Iraq. That came out of no where. But we didn't 'jump' into Afghanistan. We went in after 9/11 trying to track down Osama bin Laden.

    The war in Afghanistan is a tricky one. One the one hand, we went in to get a known enemy of America. On the other, after eight years we haven't found him yet, and we've made a big mess of the place. On the third mutated hand popping out of your shoulder blade, we really want to shoot up the terrorists, and maybe even rebuild what we have destroyed.
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    she

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    Re: in lieu of recent events, here's a water tester

    Post  she on Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:55 pm

    On a vaguely related note, why did the airlines take away the old lady's knitting needles?

    They were afraid she was going to knit an Afghan! x )

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